Michael Strasmich
15.11.2003,
20:42
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Do any other members feel that it would benifit us all if there were members meetings or gatherings held locally, where we could meet and exchange ideas, info, etc.? Members could make presentations and special speakers could be invited to share their work.
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Deborah MacPherson
17.11.2003,
09:35
@ Michael Strasmich
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»» Do any other members feel that it would benifit us all if there were
»» members meetings or gatherings held locally, where we could meet and
»» exchange ideas, info, etc.? Members could make presentations and special
»» speakers could be invited to share their work.
Yes definately, it would be easy to get some local chapters or gatherings going.
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Cynthia Pannucci
18.11.2003,
15:53
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Hi Michael -
ASCI organized members meetings for 10-years and would like to help facilitate them again, however we do not have the staff to do the work. If you would like, Christoph [info@asci.org] can search the ASCI members database and send you the email addresses and names of members in your city, state, or region [send him the specific states]. *Please give Christoph a week to recover from the site launch! Then you can compose a note inviting these people to a meeting and there decide how you as an informal group want to move forward [who finds mtg.location, programming, who is the contact person, etc.]. This is exactly how I started ASCI 15-years ago but at a time when people thought I was crazy to put the words art and science together! there was absolutely no support network.
However, it must be very clear that ASCI is in no way legally responsible for the content or the activities of your new group. So, let's not call these ASCI meetings but art-sci meetings [or art-sci-tech meetings], and you may want to come up with a name for your group.
After you get going, we could post your group's events on a specific location at the ASCI website, and if requested in the future, we could explore the idea of ASCI affiliates [legal issues, etc.]
Good luck and keep ASCI posted on your progress!
Cynthia Pannucci
ASCI Founder/Director
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Cynthia Pannucci
18.11.2003,
15:54
@ Michael Strasmich
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»» Do any other members feel that it would benifit us all if there were
»» members meetings or gatherings held locally, where we could meet and
»» exchange ideas, info, etc.? Members could make presentations and special
»» speakers could be invited to share their work.
Hi Michael -
ASCI organized members meetings for 10-years and would like to help facilitate them again, however we do not have the staff to do the work. If you would like, Christoph [info@asci.org] can search the ASCI members database and send you the email addresses and names of members in your city, state, or region [send him the specific states]. *Please give Christoph a week to recover from the site launch! Then you can compose a note inviting these people to a meeting and there decide how you as an informal group want to move forward [who finds mtg.location, programming, who is the contact person, etc.]. This is exactly how I started ASCI 15-years ago but at a time when people thought I was crazy to put the words art and science together! there was absolutely no support network.
However, it must be very clear that ASCI is in no way legally responsible for the content or the activities of your new group. So, let's not call these ASCI meetings but art-sci meetings [or art-sci-tech meetings], and you may want to come up with a name for your group.
After you get going, we could post your group's events on a specific location at the ASCI website, and if requested in the future, we could explore the idea of ASCI affiliates [legal issues, etc.]
Good luck and keep ASCI posted on your progress!
Cynthia Pannucci
ASCI Founder/Director
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Michael Strasmich
18.11.2003,
17:37
@ Cynthia Pannucci
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Cynthia,
Your response to my genral post to ASCI members surprisingly seems to indicate that as the Director of ASCI you have no real interest or desire in seeing ASCI organize regular gatherings of its members, and for it to expand its reach and offerings in this way. You say you organized members meetings for 10-years, but what happened, why are there no more meetings? Are you really against seeing regular meetings because you do not have the staff to do the work, or is it also because you are not capable or personally willing to oversee their development?
I am of the opinion that if regular meetings were held, more people would become interested in joining ASCI, and it would become a much more vital, dynamic organization, offering more than just a website, newsletter and occasional annual events for the $40 annual membership fee. The likely increase in membership income could help pay for staff.
Yet you do say you would like to help facilitate meetings again. If that is so, I suggest you put out the idea to all the members as I have done, to see if others current members besides you might be interested in working or volunteering to make this happen.
I am put off by your suggestion that if I want to see ASCI member gatherings happen, I start another mirror group that is completely and totally independent of ASCI. Why recreate the wheel, and create separation?
Your concern that I be sure that ASCI is in no way legally responsible for the content or the activities of such a splinter group seems to me to be odd, paranoid, and counter productive. What are you afraid of?
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Cynthia Pannucci
19.11.2003,
10:48
@ Michael Strasmich
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»» Cynthia,
»»
»» Your response to my genral post to ASCI members surprisingly seems to
»» indicate that as the Director of ASCI you have no real interest or desire
»» in seeing ASCI organize regular gatherings of its members, and for it to
»» expand its reach and offerings in this way. You say you organized members
»» meetings for 10-years, but what happened, why are there no more meetings?
»» Are you really against seeing regular meetings because you do not have the
»» staff to do the work, or is it also because you are not capable or
»» personally willing to oversee their development?
»»
»» I am of the opinion that if regular meetings were held, more people would
»» become interested in joining ASCI, and it would become a much more vital,
»» dynamic organization, offering more than just a website, newsletter and
»» occasional annual events for the $40 annual membership fee. The likely
»» increase in membership income could help pay for staff.
»»
»» Yet you do say you would like to help facilitate meetings again. If that
»» is so, I suggest you put out the idea to all the members as I have done,
»» to see if others current members besides you might be interested in
»» working or volunteering to make this happen.
»»
»» I am put off by your suggestion that if I want to see ASCI member
»» gatherings happen, I start another mirror group that is completely and
»» totally independent of ASCI. Why recreate the wheel, and create
»» separation?
»»
»» Your concern that I be sure that ASCI is in no way legally responsible for
»» the content or the activities of such a splinter group seems to me to be
»» odd, paranoid, and counter productive. What are you afraid of?
Michael -
We discontinued ASCI Members Meetings in NYC when we saw that over the course of their last 2-years, only 15 people were attending. Intuitively I felt this might be because many artists had begun using special interest groups on the Internet for sharing information. Then, after 9-11, I saw an immediate decrease in evening biz emails... people were spending more of that time with family and friends. My observation is that this continues. Also, we have not gotten requests for ASCI member meetings in NYC from enough people [3-4] to warrant investigating this again. And finally, since properly viewing art-sci-tech artworks of today often requires that the site has more technology than just a slide projector or video monitors, finding this type of location is not easy in NYC. Our last effort was at Remote Lounge but the atmosphere is not conducive to any type of dialogue.
However, if you would like to put an info-blurb into the next ASCI ebulletin asking for those NYC ASCI members to respond *to you* if they are interested in attending local ASCI meetings, that would be great. Then, perhaps amongst these members, someone might have a loft or access to a university site appropriate for sharing artwork of this nature. Also, if what you are truly interested in is meeting and exchanging information, why does it have to be formalized under ASCI's name? If this would help with getting a site, let's take that step when/if it comes.
Please do me the favor of responding to my email address directly, as this is now an issue between you and I.
Cynthia
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Michael Strasmich
19.11.2003,
12:34
@ Cynthia Pannucci
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»» Michael -
»» We discontinued ASCI Members Meetings in NYC when we saw that over the
»» course of their last 2-years, only 15 people were attending. Intuitively I
»» felt this might be because many artists had begun using special interest
»» groups on the Internet for sharing information. Then, after 9-11, I saw an
»» immediate decrease in evening biz emails... people were spending more of
»» that time with family and friends. My observation is that this continues.
»» Also, we have not gotten requests for ASCI member meetings in NYC from
»» enough people [3-4] to warrant investigating this again. And finally,
»» since properly viewing art-sci-tech artworks of today often requires that
»» the site has more technology than just a slide projector or video
»» monitors, finding this type of location is not easy in NYC. Our last
»» effort was at Remote Lounge but the atmosphere is not conducive to any
»» type of dialogue.
»»
»» However, if you would like to put an info-blurb into the next ASCI
»» ebulletin asking for those NYC ASCI members to respond *to you* if they
»» are interested in attending local ASCI meetings, that would be great.
»» Then, perhaps amongst these members, someone might have a loft or access
»» to a university site appropriate for sharing artwork of this nature. Also,
»» if what you are truly interested in is meeting and exchanging information,
»» why does it have to be formalized under ASCI's name? If this would help
»» with getting a site, let's take that step when/if it comes.
»»
»» Please do me the favor of responding to my email address directly, as this
»» is now an issue between you and I.
»»
»» Cynthia
Cynthia,
This is an ASCI forum, and an issue that I feel should be brought up in the open with other members, so I will respond to you here. Why not put this topic out to the ASCI community to see what they want, rather than relying on your personal observations and intuitions? You mention the internet is being used for sharing information, which you claim siphoned off attendance to previous ASCI live gatherings, so why not take advantage of it and use it for its strength.
ASCI "IS" a special interest group, and hopefully is not trying to remove itself from direct personal physical interaction by attempting to rely exclusively on the internet as its primary medium of communication.
9/11 is over, lets move on. The venue for meetings should not be such a problem especially in the largest most advanced city in the country, NYC. Perhaps if ASCI were not such an insulated organization, apparently controlled by a very few, and it were more open to teaming up with others, venue locations/opportunities would become available. The December use of the CUNY facility is a certainly a step in the right direction.
Again I suggest that "you" as the Director should be the one to place an info-blurb into the next ASCI ebulletin, not me.
You ask "why does it have to be formalized under ASCI's name" which just highlights my point that "you" really do not believe this idea is of interest or will be of benefit to ASCI members.
In truth, think that you are reluctant to explore this idea furthur because you personally don't want to have to take on the burden of this, especially since you don't live in NYC any longer, and live in Florida. That is understandable since you no longer have the ability to physically engage yourself with the ASCI group locally. I suggest that in light of this fact, and with the best interests of the majority of members in mind, you consider appointing someone to act as a co-director of ASCI in the NYC area to help facilitate its growth and development.
Your statement "if what you are truly interested in is meeting and exchanging information, why does it have to be formalized under ASCI's name" is a clear indication that you are closed to this idea, and members should be made aware of this.
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Cynthia Pannucci
19.11.2003,
21:14
@ Michael Strasmich
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Michael -
We will send out a notice to ASCI members in NYC to query about their interest in local member meetings, as I will soon be up in NYC for 10 days and could meet to further discuss this if the interest warrants it.
Seeking partnerships and producing events does not have to be done in person when one has already made personal contacts over these last 15-years in NYC... that is the beauty of the Internet and the telephone, and I travel to NYC about 4 times/yr. However, we welcome people with new ideas and energy who wish to volunteer and get involved with ASCI programming. But again, if you are, please contact me directly, as should others.
Cynthia Pannucci
ASCI founder/director
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Deborah MacPherson
118 Dogwood St. Vienna VA,
20.11.2003,
13:31
@ Cynthia Pannucci
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First of all, everybody just calm down. Bringing art and science together is a very specialized narrow pursuit that is often accused of being impractically broad. It is nice, every once in a while to discuss these concepts with people who share your interest and you don't feel you need to justify your passion or scale big brick walls all the time.
Art and Science are one long continuous discussion and debate. No one person can be responsible for it, it is like being responsible for a swarm of bees. The ASCI conference last year was VERY INSPIRING and I think this type of discourse, presentations and events could function on many levels without going anywhere near legalities and responsabilities. Are we publishing false papers? Making claims that can never be supported? No, it is all part of the ongoing eternal discourse. Our responsabilities are not to be sure it is recorded, explained, or even shared, it is just to ensure that it - the discussion - continues.
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Cynthia Pannucci
20.11.2003,
16:00
@ Deborah MacPherson
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Hi Deborah -
I loved your analogy about the discussion and debate about art and science being like a swarm of bees! We are of course, all responsible for it. I brought up the legal issue about local gatherings under the ASCI name, not to coral discussion, publishing, exhibitions, or anything. It's unfortunate, but we live in a very litigious society and if something happened at a local "ASCI Members Meeting" [someone fell and got hurt, etc.], ASCI and its Board of Directors could be liable. That is why local ASCI Members Meetings cannot officially be considered an ASCI affiliate or event, unless ASCI produces or co-produces it.
As a matter of fact, I am visiting an old friend in Santa Fe next week, and while there I'm going to meet with Susan Latham, an ASCI member that began such an informal group there several years ago. They call it the "Forum for Science and Art," and meet monthly at eachother's homes/studios to share work, information and I think collaborations are beginning. I don't think that they have incorporated, but I will know more when I meet with them.
best wishes,
Cynthia Pannucci
ASCI founder/director
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Gabriel Harp
20.11.2003,
16:34
@ Michael Strasmich
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| ArtSCI meetings: Portand<Oregon |  reply |
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I agree completely that we should organize local meetings. The majors (San Francisco, New York, London) are hotbeds of activity 1) because of events like the recent symposium Gene(sis)in Berkeley/seattle, the Einstein what-not in NYC 2002, and the 2000 Spark festival in Kensington and 2) there is likely a critical mass of folks interested in these things. Nonetheless, many of us may feel isolated because of location and/or because there exist few people around that share interest and/or expertise (synthesis is not an easy proposition).
That said, I do not think ASCI should be responsible. The success and/or failure of such groups depends completely on the motivation of those involved, and no amount of oranizing by ASCI can change that. Obviously, we are a group of highly motivated individuals with definite ideas. Surely we can arrange something. ASCI's role has been that of facilitator, and I applaud its efforts to date. This board is a fine example of those efforts. The problem is that perhaps the lack of an institutional affiliation can make it difficult to find rallying points. I was trained in science (biology), and we had lab group meetings every week. Members of the group traded off presenting topics for discussion, practicing upcoming public presentations, designing experiments, and reviewing papers. The group need not be large (five is a great number), but it is important that meeting are regular and objectives are realized. We concentrated on host-parasite interactions, and our aim was to publish scholarly journal articles, define our ideas, and develop public presentations. I feel that local meetings should be organized similarly- in the interest of advancing the state of the field. Think of the progress that could be made if tens of these groups organized, and as a result contributed at least one presentation to the annual meeting. Then we have a basis of comparison for the effectiveness of collaboration- particularly wrt group membership.
Anyway, here's to getting a lab group up and running in Portland, Oregon. Yes, Eugene, you too. I'm new to portland, but there is a lecture series here for those interested http://www.lectureseries.org. As described above, I'm interested in something a bit more errr...shall we say...academic.
I critique your manuscript if you critique mine...
cheers
gabriel
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Gabriel Harp
20.11.2003,
16:39
@ Gabriel Harp
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| ArtSCI meetings: Portand<Oregon | reply |
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Oh one more thing...I do think it would be useful if ASCI members were arranged by state, for example. Perhaps this could be on the website. It would be a huge boost to those interested in building local groups, and it would give some idea of the feasibility. Am I the only ACSI member in Portland or Oregon? Is ASCI composed of New York residents, etc, etc...
This is also plus if future meetings are to move location (e.g. chicago, sf, portland, santa fe, sioux falls).
»» Whew...just posted a long one...forum ate my message because I apparently
»» wasn't logged in- though I thought I was, or at least I did. Any chance
»» we can make it possible for anyone to post- thus reducing errors
»» associated w/logging in, passwords, etc.? I understand that membership
»» has its advantages- just a thought.
»»
»»
»» Here's the recap.
»»
»» I agree completely that we should organize local meetings. The majors
»» (San Francisco, New York, London) are hotbeds of activity 1) because of
»» events like the recent symposium in Berkeley, the Einstein what-not in NYC
»» 2002, and the 2000 Spark festival in Kensington and 2) there is likely a
»» critical mass of folks interested in these things. Nonetheless, many of
»» us may feel isolated because of location and/or because there exist few
»» people around that share interest and/or expertise (synthesis is not an
»» easy proposition).
»»
»» That said, I do not think ASCI should be responsible. The success and/or
»» failure of such groups depends completely on the motivation of those
»» involved, and no amount of oranizing by ASCI can change that. Obviously,
»» we are a group of highly motivated individuals with definite ideas.
»» Surely we can arrange something. ASCI's role has been that of
»» facilitator, and I applaud its efforts to date. This board is a fine
»» example of those efforts. The problem is that perhaps the lack of an
»» institutional affiliation can make it difficult to find rallying points.
»» I was trained in science (biology), and we had lab group meetings every
»» week. Members of the group traded off presenting topics for discussion,
»» practicing upcoming public presentations, designing experiments, and
»» reviewing papers. The group need not be large (five is a great number),
»» but it is important that meeting are regular and objectives are realized.
»» We concentrated on host-parasite interactions, and our aim was to publish
»» scholarly journal articles, define our ideas, and develop public
»» presentations. I feel that local meetings should be organized similarly-
»» in the interest of advancing the state of the field. Think of the
»» progress that could be made if tens of these groups organized, and as a
»» result contributed at least one presentation to the annual meeting. Then
»» we have a basis of comparison for the effectiveness of collaboration-
»» particularly wrt group membership.
»»
»» Anyway, here's to getting a lab group up and running in Portland, Oregon.
»» Yes, Eugene, you too. I'm new to portland, but there is a lecture series
»» here for those interested http://www.lectureseries.org. As
»» described above, I'm interested in something a bit more errr...shall we
»» say...academic.
»» I critique your manuscript if you critique mine...
»»
»» cheers
»» gabriel
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Cynthia Pannucci
20.11.2003,
17:17
@ Gabriel Harp
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| ArtSCI meetings: Portand<Oregon | reply |
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Dear Gabriel -
Let's give the BB some more time re: posting mishaps, as we would like for it to be a benefit of membership. You might want to create a long message in Word or an email program and then save it, then copy/paste it into the Reply message box. We have set the reply area limit to 3,000 characters which should be plenty, and the timmed-out limit is set to 1-hour [of inactivity].
Thank-you for your response re: ASCI not taking responsibility for local ASCI meeting initiatives, and acknowledging that without self-motivation, nothing of consequence happens. If you find that an ASCI introduction would help for approaching institutions, let us know and we'll do our best. I have found that the ASCI website's rich project archive and the ASCI Members Homepage Listing speaks for itself in terms of commitment and quality of our art-sci endeavors.
I hope that you receive some response to your offer... we will let folks know that dialogue has begun on the BB in our next ebulletin issue in December.
Got to get back to some bookkeeping!
cheers,
Cynthia Pannucci
ASCI founder/director
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